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FreeTrack Forum > FreeTrack : English Forum > Support : Tracking System > Hopefully my future FreeTrack system, uses a Wii Sensor Bar.
edberg | #1 16/04/2008 - 13h12 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
Will you think this will work? I plan on using the Wii Sensor Bar as the emitter and a Trackir TrackClip to reflect the Light back into the camera.
I will be using one of these for the IR emitter; NYKO : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16878112002 Rosewill: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16878229012 which one of the two is brighter for optimum reflectivity? And I will be using one of these webcams; Labtec Webcam Plus: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826149006 Logitech QuickCam Messenger: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104078 Microsoft LifeCam VX-1000 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826105196 Which one of these do you think is best? And finally I will be using this to reflect the light back to the webcam. TrackIR TrackClip http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/0-resources-products/TrackClip-black-isoRight.jpg The NYKO Sensor Bar appears to have 3 IR LEDS on each side, do you think this will be enough light to reflect back? I am planning on using the Logitech Webcam because it's legs can "wrap" around the Sensor bar, keeping it in place atop my LCD monitor. And it is cheaper, But the final decision is up to you. |
edberg | #2 17/04/2008 - 19h22 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
Anyone?
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Deimos | #3 18/04/2008 - 00h37 |
Class : Beta Tester Off line |
Firs of all, you need to know that for a reflective system, you _will_ have to remove the webcam's IR filter - reflected light is way too weak to be picked up trough a filter, especially on in a labtec camera (they have really strong IR filters).
About the sensor bar - i don't think it's a good idea. LEDs in sensor bar are only bright enough to be seen by a IR camera (just like LEDs we mount on FT caps/clips), but they're way too weak to iluminate objects in distance and reflect off them - sensor bar simply isn't designed for this. You'll eighter have to grab a real IR illuminator (since they're designed as an illumination for cameras, their LEDs are much brighter than ones on a Wii SensorBar), or build one yourself. Such illuminators are commonly used for night surveillance CCTV systems. you can find some on ebay, or around internet stores. http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=IR+illuminator&category0= Of course you won't need anything very powerful with 140 LEDs and 80m range Even something with about 10 LEDs should suffice. |
edberg | #4 18/04/2008 - 03h59 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
How about one of these? It has the same amount of LEDs as the WII Sensor bar, so it might not work huh?
http://www.amazon.com/Infrared-NightVision-MegaPixel-WebCam-Microphone/dp/B000GLPQW0 Any better variants out there? I really don't want to wear the LEDs on the hat, just the reflector. Hopefully I will go out to buy the parts tomorrow. The distance from the camera/IR lights to the reflector is just over 2feet. |
Deimos | #5 18/04/2008 - 15h18 |
Class : Beta Tester Off line |
Might work, but it depends on how bright these LEDs really are... Also, you'll still need to get the IR filter out of this thing. Yeah. i know, a camera with IR LEDs and IR filter - sounds stupid, but that's probably the way it is, just like in this cam:
http://forum.free-track.net//index.php?showtopic=728 I used a modded labtec webcam with removed IR filter and 7 LEDs powered at 100mA each. The LEDs are mounted on a PCB with really thick copper traces between them for better heat dissipation, but the entire camera still heats up quite a bit (up to something about 40-50 degrees), however the setup works fine. If you plan on using the original TrackIR reflector, you'll probably need to modify them a bit though. FT doesn't really play along nice with big rectangular reflectors: when you move your head forward, it will pick up a few points on each reflector instead of a single one in center of it. You'll need to use some opaque tape to cover sides of reflectors making them closer to square shape (unless you want to simply cut them, but i guess the tape is a better solution). Anyway, here's some of my previous posts on this subject: http://forum.free-track.net/index.php?showtopic=466&message=3827 http://forum.free-track.net/index.php?showtopic=697&message=5320 http://forum.free-track.net/index.php?showtopic=704&message=5345 |
edberg | #6 20/04/2008 - 05h40 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
I've bought a Logitech Quickcam chat, and it appears to have no IR filter, I've tested it with a flashlight and it seems to work fine. I've ordered the trackclip, now I'm looking for a good IR emitter.
Also when I set my camera settings in freetrack such as White Balance and Exposure, they always go back to default when I restart the program, is there a way to save these settings?
Edited by edberg on 20/04/2008 at 05h42.
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zaelu | #7 20/04/2008 - 13h42 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
I think all Logitech cams have IR filter. Is true they see IR light (depending on what type of IR LEDs you have, the wavelength can vary from LED type to LED type). I have a Logitech Quick Camconnect and had my IR filter removed.
One squad mate has a older version of Logitech QuickCam (similar to that from the link you post but with different base) and it was a PITA to remove that IR filter from it. I thought about using reflective surfaces with freetrack but, dropped that idea when I saw how poorly the reflection is picked up by my Logitech webcam (with the IR filter removed!). And... buying a TIR clip to make freetrack work? Man... I think you will end up buying the whole thing... Good luck though... |
edberg | #8 20/04/2008 - 23h20 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
Anyone know where I can get IR emitters anywhere else other then Ebay? I've checked but they are all upwards of 30$, the ones on ebay are only 10$.
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edberg | #9 28/04/2008 - 21h46 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
I received my trackclip and tested it with an LED flashlight, it's horrible. My face reflects more light then the reflectors. I don't want to spend more money on an LED emitter if it's not going to work.
Can someone explain all the camera settings to me as well? |
Deimos | #10 28/04/2008 - 23h22 |
Class : Beta Tester Off line |
As i said, you probably WILL need to remove the camera's IR filter if you want to use a reflective system.
Sure, the camera can see some IR light now, but it's only a fraction of what it would be able to pick up with IR filter removed, and the reflected IR light is rather weak. Take a look at how my IR camera (these are settings i use in FT) sees me without the IR illumination enabled: The room is illuminated by halogen lights, which emit some IR, so there's still some light visible. When i enable the IR LEDs, it looks like this: As you can see, my head got illuminated a bit by the IR LEDS, but the reflectors are still way brighter, so FT has no trouble with picking them out from the background. here are the images with my head tilted and pitched to the point where i can barely see the entire screen (absolute maximum movement i would use in FT): IR LEDs off IR LEDs on I used a reflective tape for my setup. Since you have an original trackIR clip, it should work even better, since it's specifically designed to work with IR LEDs illuminating it (unlike the tape), it should work even better than my setup (at least without the IR filter and with visible light filter applied to the camera). You said you were using a LED flashlight to test it. Unless it's a IR flashlight, i don't think it will be of much real use for freetrack, but it should be enough for testing - if your face is illuminated by it, then the points should still be seen in the camera really clearly. Just remember that the material on the trackIR clip is actually a RETROflective - that means that it bounces most light exactly back to its source, while all other materials (including skin) disperse light in all directions, and only a small fraction of it returns back to the camera. That's why the points are so much brighter than my head in those pictures. So the light source has to be as close to camera lens as possible to make the reflection visible to the camera (that's why i mounted LEDs around camera lens in my setup). If it's moved away from the camera, all light will come back to the flashlight, completely missing the camera and the reflectors in the picture will look as if they were made of plain gray plastic. I'm sure that with some proper illumination you'll become a satisfied FreeTrack user
Edited by Deimos on 28/04/2008 at 23h23.
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edberg | #11 29/04/2008 - 16h38 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
Oh I found the IR filter, It was hidden and really tiny. I also added one layer of floppy disk and all visible light is blocked unless a flashlight is directly aimed at the camera, but I still can't get light from the flashlight to reflect back to the camera. I guess I need to get the IR LEDs. I tried a white-LED flashlight a normal flashlight, both were really bright ones too.
Another thing is the field of view, I can barely move 1 inch on both directions before one of the reflectors goes off screen, I can't move the camera any further back ether. I fear this might be a problem. |
Deimos | #12 29/04/2008 - 20h56 |
Class : Beta Tester Off line |
For the flashlight - it won't work. That's the entire point of using IR cam: it filters out all visible light that might interfere with tracking and guarantees that only the tracking points are well visible. LED flashlights emit almost no IR light, so the won't be picked up by the IR-modded cam at all, and normal flashlight emit some IR, but much less than IR LEDs - still not enough to make the points visible (anyway, who would like to have a flashlight shining in the face while playing?).
If you want to use a flashlight-factor illuminator, there are IR flashlights on ebay, you can take a white LED flashlight and replace its LEDs with IR ones - they have similar electrical parameters so it will work as long as you solder the LEDs the correct way and don't damage anything in the process. And if you want to just wire a few IR LEDs yourself, you can try getting them at local electronic/hobby stores (there should be some in your vicinity), or audio/video hardware service points, since leds like the ones you need are used in all IR remote controllers. |
edberg | #13 30/04/2008 - 00h11 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
Should I remove the Visible Light filter and try it that way? I just want to be able to test this somehow before buying an IR emitter. I don't want to solder anything ether.
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Kestrel | #14 30/04/2008 - 02h27 |
Off line |
Use a classic inefficient tungsten light bulb, it produces ample IR light for illuminating reflectors and also burns a hole in your retina at the same time.
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edberg | #15 01/05/2008 - 23h38 |
Class : Apprenti Off line |
Nothing, everything gets illuminated equally.
Edited by edberg on 01/05/2008 at 23h38.
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FreeTrack Forum > FreeTrack : English Forum > Support : Tracking System > Hopefully my future FreeTrack system, uses a Wii Sensor Bar.
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